/linked/2017/02/08/prepaid-debit-overdraft-fees

Comments

Not Anonymous:
Do you understand capitalism?

No.

I do not like these fees.

But it's not the role of the state to determine what businesses can and cannot charge.

And, maybe, just maybe, if we hadn't artificially depressed interest rates for nearly a decade, banks wouldn't be do desperate to find sleazy ways to make a few bucks.
3:27 am — Thursday, 9 February 2017
anonymous:
It's really pretty simple.

1. Get a job.

2. Keep track of your finances.

3. Don't spend money that you don't have.

Problem solved.

Yeah the banks are dirtbags without a doubt, but what business allows you to take their money or product without paying for it with no penalty? (as I block all ads on DF and most sites)

If your bank or card issuer is hosing you then get a different card. Can't get a different card? Get a fucking job and pay off the one you fucked up.

Can't get a job? Then educate yourself and keep trying.

Can't educate yourself or try? Then you may want to question your usefulness on this planet.
4:02 am — Thursday, 9 February 2017
anonymous:
What is this bullshit? I'm just here to complain about having to buy dongles. Congress should pass a law against THAT.
4:24 am — Thursday, 9 February 2017
ano:
absolutely with Gruber on this one. What consumer banks were doing with overdraft fees in the mid 2000s was nothing short of criminal.

Reordering transaction history out of chronological order with schemes to optimize hitting their customer with extra overdrafts is plain criminal, and there is no defense for it.
4:55 am — Thursday, 9 February 2017
Not Anonymous:
It's not criminal. It's just a sleazy way to operate.

Post-Glass-Steagall-repeal banks (thanks Clinton!) are vultures.

Banning this fee or that fee doesn't address the core problem.
5:58 am — Thursday, 9 February 2017
anonymous:
"It's not criminal. It's just a sleazy way to operate."

Agreed.

Likewise when the banks loan money to people who can't pay, be it a mortgage or credit card, the bank should not be bailed out by the government and should be left to fail.

Banks got bailed out and then gave themselves bonuses and raises. It was absurd.
6:20 am — Thursday, 9 February 2017
anonymous:
"What consumer banks were doing with overdraft fees in the mid 2000s was nothing short of criminal"

No one is forcing anyone to bank with them. If you can't afford something then don't buy it. Get a job and pay for the shit you buy. Keep track of how much money you have. This is not advanced physics solving the mysteries of the universe. It's basic adding and subtracting.

If you lose track of how much money you have and buy a coffee at starbucks that winds up costing you $35 in overdraft fees that is your fucking fault.
6:27 am — Thursday, 9 February 2017
jimothy:
This all could have been solved if we had just elected Sanders.

When everybody gets free health care, college, tampons, and Starbucks, there will be no such thing as overdraft fees.
8:26 am — Thursday, 9 February 2017
knowitall:
"No one is forcing anyone to bank with them"

The capitalist system that we have basically means everyone has to have a bank account to survive.

Because of this important fact banks have to play fair because consumers do not have a choice to not use them.

Furthermore, banks create money out of your deposits (x.9 fractional reserve ratio). So its not like they dont have the funds to operate. Its not like a normal business where it costs them to make x unit of something.

The reality is it doesnt cost them any more to facilitate an overdraft payment. There is no "work" going into it. They are charging you dishonestly and have you over a barrell because the world dictates that you need them.

If you cant offer an overdraft without extortionate fees (and I use this term correctly here), perhaps you shouldn't authorize the overdraft in the first place.

But they do it to get people hooked into debt with disproportionate charges, just like loan sharks do.

Its not good.
12:03 pm — Thursday, 9 February 2017
anonymous:
> And, maybe, just maybe, if we hadn't artificially depressed interest rates for nearly a decade, banks wouldn't be do desperate to find sleazy ways to make a few bucks.


LOOOOOOOOL
12:14 pm — Thursday, 9 February 2017
John Rodham Gruber:
>Because of this important fact banks have to play fair because consumers do not have a choice to not use them.

Who in the fuck, do pray tell, is forcing you to overdraft your goddamned account? Gruber essentially wants the government to set the terms at which a bank should LOAN YOU MONEY. An overdraft is a loan. There is nothing reasonable about this.

>So its not like they dont have the funds to operate. Its not like a normal business where it costs them to make x unit of something.

So what? Who gives a rat's ass? It doesn't Gruber "x unit of something" to make his shitty website either, but nobody is calling for the government to regulate his sponsorship fees.

>If you cant offer an overdraft without extortionate fees (and I use this term correctly here), perhaps you shouldn't authorize the overdraft in the first place.

Or, perhaps, you shouldn't overdraft the account?

>But they do it to get people hooked into debt with disproportionate charges, just like loan sharks do.

Cry me a river.
12:36 pm — Thursday, 9 February 2017
Mr. Reality:
The pivot is complete. Gruber went where the eyeballs were. This is now a political website with a smattering of apple news.
1:52 pm — Thursday, 9 February 2017
Patrick Henry, the 2nd:
> Because of this important fact banks have to play fair because consumers do not have a choice to not use them.

And because of government regulation, banks suck. Surprise!!

> The pivot is complete. Gruber went where the eyeballs were. This is now a political website with a smattering of apple news.

Noticed that too. Then again, when he was desperate for sponsorships, he cut down on the political posts.
3:44 pm — Thursday, 9 February 2017
knowitall:
@John Rodham Gruber

I'm glad you like living in the "wild west".

Where anything goes. And I know you cant wait to make America "great again".

So that its a survival of the fittest situation. I bet you advocate dismantling net neutrality too... because its very "american" to just take advantage of people and charge them to their eyes bleed just to make a buck!

I bet you have a replica rambo knife and and belt with bullets on it as well..

sad
3:52 pm — Thursday, 9 February 2017
anonymous:
"Noticed that too. Then again, when he was desperate for sponsorships, he cut down on the political posts."

He even changed his logo so it was DaringHillaryBalls.

Then he promptly went begging for sponsors.

Correlation does not imply causation. But I'm just sayin'. Then again maybe it's that ad buys are always weak after the first of the year.
4:17 pm — Thursday, 9 February 2017
catfood:
yes people should practice financial responsibility. but when you're living paycheck to paycheck (which you're probably doing if you're using prepaid debit cards), it's easy to inadvertently spend $8 on gas when you have a $7.92 balance on your card. you smug shits can afford to be smug shits when you're well-off enough never have to worry about things like that.

these are prepaid debit cards, not credit cards. if there's an insufficient balance on the card, decline the transaction. you don't get to steal as much money from poor people that way, but it's a simple & effective solution.
4:54 pm — Thursday, 9 February 2017
anonymous:
>And because of government regulation, banks suck. Surprise!!


yes, because banks never sucked before regulations that might limit their fucking of their customers. but you keep thinking that.

5:20 pm — Thursday, 9 February 2017
catfood:
*Who in the fuck, do pray tell, is forcing you to overdraft your goddamned account?*

if you try to buy something with a prepaid debit card that has insufficient funds, and the bank 'overdrafts' it whether you want them to or not, then the bank is forcing you to overdraft your goddamned account.

that's who the fuck.
5:31 pm — Thursday, 9 February 2017
jimothy:
> if you try to buy something with a prepaid debit card that has insufficient funds, and the bank 'overdrafts' it whether you want them to or not, then the bank is forcing you to overdraft your goddamned account.

Don't try to buy something when you don't have sufficient funds. The bank isn't forcing you to do that. You know the point, you're just deliberately missing it.

It's funny that the people who claim you're forced to do something when you really do have a choice, are likely the same people who champion the government forcing people to do things, like purchase healthcare or pay more in taxes. Unfortunately, this irony is likely lost on those people.
6:04 pm — Thursday, 9 February 2017
Sweet Jesus:
Yeah, let's consider all rules scrapped! Westworld soon starts looking like a documentary.
6:58 pm — Thursday, 9 February 2017
piece of kit:
Government of the people, by the people, and *for the people*.

These rules are to protect people from predatory bank practices. It's not about capitalism.
7:22 pm — Thursday, 9 February 2017
anonymous:
These conversations are ridiculous.

You only need a credit card to book a plane flight, rent a car, get a hotel, order shit from amazon. All things that you shouldn't be doing unless you can afford it.

Pay cash for your coffee, gas, used car, food, rent, take the bus to the closest Verizon store to pay your phone bill in cash. Trust me, I have been there.

People. It's not that hard.

DO NOT SPEND MONEY THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE.

It's that simple.

Like a lot of people in the world I ate ramen noodles and peanut butter on white bread to get by for far too long.

I made those sacrifices to avoid any kind of over charge of any kind.

I wanted coffee, but never bought it. You know why? at the time I couldn't afford it.

Now I am comfortable because I sacrificed, worked my fucking ass off, got an education and live now live a very comfortable life where these overdraft charges will never be a worry.

I suggest everyone else do the same.

Don't blame the banks, who are fucking assholes no doubt. Look in the fucking mirror and make yourself better and more responsible.
7:56 pm — Thursday, 9 February 2017
catfood:
*Don't try to buy something when you don't have sufficient funds.*

oh jumping jesus on rollerblades.

if there aren't sufficient funds on the card, the transaction should be declined, not 'overdrafted' with accompanying fees. surely you can agree with me here.

*people who claim you're forced to do something when you really do have a choice*

you've never been poor, have you? money may not buy happiness, but it sure as fuck provides options. if you ever find yourself flat broke, please come back and let us know what you think about the *choices* you're left with.
8:15 pm — Thursday, 9 February 2017
catfood:
*These conversations are ridiculous. You only need a credit card...*

we're not talking about credit cards.
8:19 pm — Thursday, 9 February 2017
Not Anonymous:
catfood – Declining rather than over-drafting would be a best practice. Banks should do this. It would be swell. But they're allowed to have whatever ridiculous rules they want.

It's up the customer to spend responsibly, not to regulate for them a life lived with perpetual training wheels and gutter guards.

This is not the best way to help the poor.
8:26 pm — Thursday, 9 February 2017
catfood:
*But they're allowed to have whatever ridiculous rules they want.*

okay. let's say your visa issuer makes a rule that you have to forfeit your car if your balance is ever 24.72, 112.36, or 507.19. then it's up to you, the customer, to spend responsibly, calling the 1-800 number on the back to check your exact balance every time prior to using it (and no, there's no app for that).

that's a ridiculous rule, for sure. but they're allowed to have ridiculous rules, and if you accidentally forget to account for the sales tax on that kit-kat, your car is gone, and it's *your fault.*
8:59 pm — Thursday, 9 February 2017
Not Anonymous:
catfood – I probably wouldn't use that Visa issuer. And no one else would either. The issuer would quickly fold.

Or, sticking with your extreme example, apps would appear that round up to avoid those balances with microdonations to charity.

No law is required.
9:28 pm — Thursday, 9 February 2017
catfood:
if your paycheck comes in the form of a prepaid debit card, you don't have the option of not using that issuer.

and there's no app that works with this particular visa, remember? just like there's no app that protects you from inadvertently overdrawing your prepaid card.

but you're a customer who spends responsibly, so you don't mind calling that number to check your balance every time you use your visa. and you won't complain if you miscalculate by a few cents and lose your car. it's your fault, fair and square.
9:43 pm — Thursday, 9 February 2017
President Donald. J. Fuckfaceofaperson:
Corporations will do whatever it takes to fuck you.

That is all.

Left unchecked, they will fuck you over and over and over again until someone/something forces them to stop fucking you.
9:44 pm — Thursday, 9 February 2017
anonymous:
@catfood

"we're not talking about credit cards."

Sorry sorry. debit cards. However debit cards have a Visa or other major credit card logo on them.

For all intents and purposes they work just like credit cards. Exception being if you overspend like an idiot the bank charges you a fee instead of simply declining the transaction.

If you overspend on a credit card or don't pay the bill the fees can easily be similar.

Bottom line, DO NOT SPEND MONEY YOU DO NOT HAVE regardless of what card it is.

Track your finances. Pay with cash for everything that doesn't require a card of some sort, which is doable with almost everything.
9:48 pm — Thursday, 9 February 2017
anonymous:
@catfood

"if your paycheck comes in the form of a prepaid debit card"

What employer pays their employees with prepaid debit cards?

Honest question.

I have never heard of such a thing.
9:53 pm — Thursday, 9 February 2017
Not Anonymous:
By paycheck you mean benefits card. And in that case, the government funding the card easily has the clout to bar overdrafts when awarding the contract.

There's only no app if you allow a corruptible regulatory regime to prevent such apps existing. That Visa issuer would love you.

I wouldn't call to find the balance every time I use my card because I wouldn't use such a card. A free market provides options to help customers avoid companies just like our fictional Visa issuer.

What are you arguing for a mindless existence where our every choice and need is catered by the government. All necessities provided, all anxieties tranquilized, all boredom amused.
10:05 pm — Thursday, 9 February 2017
John Rodham Gruber:
@knownothingatall

>I'm glad you like living in the "wild west".

Not spending money I don't have is the "wild west"?

>Where anything goes.

When did I say that?

>And I know you cant wait to make America "great again".

When did I say that?

>So that its a survival of the fittest situation.

When did I say that? There is no "survival" required, nor does anyone need to be the "fittest" in order to NOT SPEND MONEY YOU DON'T HAVE.

>I bet you advocate dismantling net neutrality too...

What the fuck does net neutrality have to do with a discussion about banking regulations?

>because its very "american" to just take advantage of people and charge them to their eyes bleed just to make a buck!

Nobody is forcing anyone to use the cards in question, nor is anyone forcing them to use them in the specific manner that triggers the overdraft fees.

>I bet you have a replica rambo knife and and belt with bullets on it as well..

What purpose would that serve?

>sad

Agreed.
11:18 pm — Thursday, 9 February 2017
catfood:
*What employer pays their employees with prepaid debit cards?*

http://bit.ly/2kNIXRZ
http://nyti.ms/2kNLfAk

*By paycheck you mean benefits card.*

See above.

*What are you arguing for a mindless existence where...*

i'm really, really not.

let's try this one: you go into a store, buy something that costs four dollars, and hand the clerk what you honestly thought was four dollars. it's actually three.

instead of saying 'sorry, that's not enough,' the clerk takes a dollar out of the drawer, adds it to your three, and says 'you owe a thirty-dollar overdraft fee. plus the dollar i loaned you.'
12:15 am — Friday, 10 February 2017
anonymous:
Which is why you should pay with cash that you know you have or know how much money is in your account.

Either way it's your responsibility.

Do the banks suck balls?

Yes.

Are people fucking irresponsible morons?

Yes.

Bottom line, don't spend money you don't have. Take responsibility for your own life and actions.

Don't want to pay $180 for running a red light? Then slow the fuck down, learn how to drive and stop.

Personal responsibility.

Problem solved.
12:49 am — Friday, 10 February 2017
catfood:
oh for heaven's sake. nobody is saying that you should spend money you don't have. these aren't credit cards. they're supposed to be cards with your money behind them, and when you spend that money, you don't get to spend any more.

*you should pay with cash*

that's excellent advice for anyone who gets paid with these things. immediately go to an atm and cash it out.

*Don't want to pay $180 for running a red light? Then slow the fuck down, learn how to drive and stop.*

that's a total non-sequitur.
1:52 am — Friday, 10 February 2017
anonymous:
Personal responsibility.

Problem solved.
2:09 am — Friday, 10 February 2017
Repent & Believe:
More Government! Exactly what we need!
12:49 pm — Friday, 10 February 2017
DanglingSackball:
Get a checking account. Get a debit card with it. DECLINE OVERDRAFT PROTECTION. It's extremely easy to do if you brain functions.

Then you will never get an overdraft charge / penalty / fee / whatever you want to call it.
4:39 pm — Friday, 10 February 2017
anonymous:
@catfood

"Don't want to pay $180 for running a red light? Then slow the fuck down, learn how to drive and stop.

that's a total non-sequitur."

If you can't see the analogy then maybe someone like you really does need to government to run your life and protect you for your poor decisions that are entirely avoidable with just a cunt hairs worth of personal responsibility.

@DanglingSackball

"Get a checking account. Get a debit card with it. DECLINE OVERDRAFT PROTECTION. It's extremely easy to do if you brain functions."

Well now that just makes too much sense don't you think?

Can you imagine a person taking responsibility for their own actions and finances?

Judging by some of the comments in this thread some of these people need the government to tell them which hole the pee comes out of and what to do when it happens.
5:27 pm — Friday, 10 February 2017
catfood:
sigh. okay, you're convinced i don't get it, and i'm convinced you don't get it. we'll just leave it there, i guess.

have a splendid weekend.
10:14 pm — Friday, 10 February 2017
anonymous:
I understand your frustration with me catfood.

Are $35 overdraft fees ridiculous? Absolutely.

Are they completely avoidable in many ways? Absolutely.

Should a person who can't understand these basic concepts get credit or be able to overdraft in a predatory manner? Absolutely not.

Because they are mouth breathing morons.

I think that we both "get it". I hope you have at splendid weekend and hundreds more.

Never stop arguing. Never stop standing up. This kind of discourse is what people are so afraid of.
5:05 am — Saturday, 11 February 2017
jimothy:
The condescension of the left is brought into light with this discussion.

"Of course, *I* can responsibly manage my checking account, but those poor, uneducated masses we care about so much are completely incapable of such things and needs us to manage things for them. Now, has anyone seen my safety pin?"
2:00 pm — Monday, 13 February 2017
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