/linked/2017/08/04/airdrop-35000-feet

Comments

2b1ask1:
More fake news.

Planes going the same direction are 2,000 feet apart, not 1,000?

I thought Class 1 Bluetooth had a maximum range of 100 meters, 328 feet feet.
10:13 pm — Friday, 4 August 2017
Gruber the Booger:
Fake as a $3 bill. Gruber once again shows he is a complete moron.

From Apple.com regarding Airdrop:

>Make sure that the person you're sending to is nearby. You can't AirDrop to users who are out of Bluetooth and Wi-Fi range.

Range of Bluetooth: 100 meters

Range of wifi: 32 meters
10:20 pm — Friday, 4 August 2017
To Be Fair:
@2b1ask1 @Gruber the Booger:

Are you guys seriously this stupid?

Those range limits are estimates based on typical usage. In conditions like this, with no obstructions, radio signals can work at much longer ranges.

Gruber's stupidity is attributing this to Airdrop, rather than the robustness of wireless transmission protocols.


11:37 pm — Friday, 4 August 2017
anonymous:
You guys realize that the stated distance for wireless isn't an absolute, right?
12:28 am — Saturday, 5 August 2017
To Be Fair:
>You guys realize that the stated distance for wireless isn't an absolute, right?

I really think they don't.
12:30 am — Saturday, 5 August 2017
Gruber the Booger:
So you guys are saying that unobstructed, Bluetooth and wifi can travel over 1000 feet from one iPhone to another?

Not without amplification and an antenna.
1:29 am — Saturday, 5 August 2017
anonymous:
they did the math:


Look at the Friis Transmission Equation for LoS radio losses:

Pr = Pt Gt Gr λ2/16π2d2

Pr = power at receiver, watts

Pt = power of transmitter, watts (2.4 GHz and 5 GHz WiFi allow 30 dBm or 1W)

Gt = antenna gain at transmitter (typically 2-3 dBi for dipole or ~2x - probably too conservative)

Gr = antenna gain at receiver (typically 2-3 dBi or ~2x - probably too conservative)

λ = signal wavelength, meters (2.4 GHz most likely, so 0.125m, 5 GHz
=> 0.0625m)

π = pi, 3.14159

d = distance, meters (1000 ft = 304.8 meters)

Plugging in this gives 1 nW (-60dBm) which is more than enough power for any decent receiver. Things don't get hairy until power gets to -80dBm to -100dBm. Strictly the Friis equation doesn't consider LoS attenuation which is actually better at altitude than at sea level. But it is a good order-of-magnitude estimate.

Because of the nature of the path, (and the fact that BT specs are strictly "sea level with ground plane", i.e. Earth) it's possible BT could works as well despite being spec'ed for shorter distances. WiFi can trivially hit 300m with enough antenna gain even at sea level (that's the point of "Cantenna" systems - which are able to connect over several Km.
1:46 am — Saturday, 5 August 2017
My Optional Name:
This looks like grade-A bullshit to me. The pilot's iPhone is in Airplane Mode, as indicated by the AM icon in the top bar. Now, you can activate AirDrop while in AM, but guess what happens when you do? Wi-Fi gets turned on AND you get a Wi-Fi icon next to the AM icon. And guess what you do NOT see in that video during the "AirDrop" session? The Wi-Fi icon.
3:38 am — Saturday, 5 August 2017
anonymous:
you're wrong. i just put my phone in airplane mode, then shared a photo via airdrop to my laptop. the bluetooth icon came on, but the wifi icon didn't. probably because you're not joining a network, you're creating an ad-hoc wifi network.
4:22 am — Saturday, 5 August 2017
To Be Fair:
@Gruber the Booger:

>Not without amplification and an antenna.

Who said there wasn't amplification and an antenna? Planes have antennas and communication systems on them.

>So you guys are saying that unobstructed, Bluetooth and wifi can travel over 1000 feet from one iPhone to another?

Even if they weren't using those systems, it's absolutely possible for those signals to travel that far. They could even travel millions of miles out into space.
7:07 am — Saturday, 5 August 2017
My Optional Name:
>you're wrong. i just put my phone in airplane mode, then shared a photo via airdrop to my laptop. the bluetooth icon came on, but the wifi icon didn't. probably because you're not joining a network, you're creating an ad-hoc wifi network.

I was about to explain how I wasn't wrong and why you were, but then it occurred to me something wasn't right about what you said about an ad-hoc network, so I retried this after "forgetting" my home wi-fi. As it turns out, we both are partly wrong. AirPlay requires wi-fi, and if a wi-fi network isn't available, the iPhone will instead create an ad-hoc network. In that latter case, the wi-fi icon will not be on the top bar because the iPhone isn't actually on a wi-fi network... it IS the wi-fi network. So I now don't doubt that a transfer was made to "someone" via AirDrop.

However, I'm still calling shenanigans. For one thing, we have no proof that the recipient was on that other plane and not sitting next to the pilot. Secondly, even Gruber is admitting he was duped (see his update). Thirdly, the video is now flagged as private and not viewable, so even if you want to contend that IBTimes is wrong despite the statement they got from the airline, then question why the video owner took down his video.
3:19 pm — Saturday, 5 August 2017
My Optional Name:
>Even if they weren't using those systems, it's absolutely possible for those signals to travel that far. They could even travel millions of miles out into space.

![](http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/dr-mccoy-and-captain-kirk-approve.gif)
3:25 pm — Saturday, 5 August 2017
anonymous:
> AirPlay requires wi-fi, and if a wi-fi network isn't available, the iPhone will instead create an ad-hoc network. In that latter case, the wi-fi icon will not be on the top bar because the iPhone isn't actually on a wi-fi network... it IS the wi-fi network. So I now don't doubt that a transfer was made to "someone" via AirDrop.

so what you're saying is, i was 100% right.
6:41 pm — Saturday, 5 August 2017
anonymous:
>AirPlay requires wi-fi

AirPlay ≠ AirDrop
7:12 pm — Saturday, 5 August 2017
My Optional Name:
>so what you're saying is, i was 100% right.

No. You said "I" must have been creating an ad-hoc network because I had the wi-fi icon. It was the opposite. You were creating it, I wasn't until my second try after your post.

>AirPlay ≠ AirDrop

Typo on my part. Whoops.
10:40 pm — Saturday, 5 August 2017
My Optional Name:
>No. You said...

Never mind, I see now you were using "you're" in a general sense, not directed at me. My bad, I stand corrected. Carry on, as you were.
11:02 pm — Saturday, 5 August 2017
Gruber the Booger:
UPDATE: [Looks like it’s a hoax.](http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/real-fake-viral-video-claims-pilot-sent-photos-via-airdrop-singapore-airlines-jet-35000ft-1633552)

Yeah. So I stand by my first comment:

>Faker than a $3 bill.

You guys (you know who you are) can all have exactly one hot cup of Chowder. Eat up.
1:42 am — Sunday, 6 August 2017
Gruber the Booger:
@To Be Fair:

>Who said there wasn't amplification and an antenna? Planes have antennas and communication systems on them.

Way to move the goalposts there. I was talking about iPhone to iPhone as I previously stated.

>Even if they weren't using those systems, it's absolutely possible for those signals to travel that far. They could even travel millions of miles out into space.

Again moving those goalposts are we? I don't dispute that IN OUTER SPACE that is possible. I was talking about iPhone to iPhone at 35,000 feet.

Anyway it's a hoax. Video has been removed.
1:55 am — Sunday, 6 August 2017
To Be Fair:
>Again moving those goalposts are we? I don't dispute that IN OUTER SPACE that is possible. I was talking about iPhone to iPhone at 35,000 feet.

No moving of goalposts. Your logic was faulty.

There's no reason "iPhone to iPhone at 35,000 feet" isn't technically possible.

Your saying it's impossible based on stated distance limits is stupid, because radio waves don't follow the guidelines stated in user manuals.

Even though this was a hoax, does not mean it isn't technically possible.
10:29 am — Sunday, 6 August 2017
Enough Already:
I just came here to make fun of the person who thinks that you have to multiply the 1000ft difference by two. Why’s that, chum? Because there are two airplanes? Because the man holding the phone has two thumbs? Because your twin has the other half of your brain?

OK, just kidding. Let's just assume you haven't had your coffee and you’re busy trying to figure out if your adult sun is serious about being a plantkin or if it'll be a phase like his bronyism.

Have a good day, Internet friend.
7:20 pm — Sunday, 6 August 2017
Enough Already:
\*son
7:20 pm — Sunday, 6 August 2017
Enough Already:
BTW this couldn't happen in outer space because Boeing jets aren’t sufficiently pressurized or shielded for exit and re-entry into the atmosphere and their engines and wings don’t work without air


pwnt
7:22 pm — Sunday, 6 August 2017
grubes:
A guy in my elevator did an airdrop.

god, the smell...
9:28 pm — Sunday, 6 August 2017
anonymous:
> Never mind, I see now you were using "you're" in a general sense, not directed at me. My bad, I stand corrected. Carry on, as you were.

you're a real mensch.
6:15 pm — Monday, 7 August 2017
My Optional Name:
>you're a real mensch.

![](https://i.imgflip.com/1tqkty.jpg)
1:39 am — Tuesday, 8 August 2017
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