/linked/2017/08/16/economist-damore

Comments

anonymous:
>Your interpretation is wrong.

No it isn't. Leftists just don't want to accept reality and want the whole world to accept to their delusions.
7:59 pm — Wednesday, 16 August 2017
Not Anonymous:
The Far Left's response to this whole episode is a great example of motivated reasoning.

The Left is not liberal.
8:08 pm — Wednesday, 16 August 2017
Gruber the Booger:
>Your interpretation is correct. Your memo was a great example of what’s called “reasoning” — seeking out only the information that supports science and fact. It was derogatory to no one in our industry and elsewhere. Your stated support for diversity and fairness, demonstrated profound prescience. Your chain of reasoning had so many links that it hardly mattered what your argument was based on. No one reporting or talking about it actually read it all. We try to hire people who are willing to blindly follow as they march lock step in jack boot new left fascism. Facts lead to important conversations, whatever their preconceptions. In your case we clearly made a mistake.

There fixed that for you.

I like the Economist but this a load of virtue signaling bullshit.
8:26 pm — Wednesday, 16 August 2017
jimothy:
>Your memo was a great example of what’s called “motivated reasoning”—seeking out only the information that supports what you already believe.

How's that for the pot calling the kettle black?

I don't know how much, if any, merit Damore's claims have. But the thing is, certain factions won't even consider his comments enough to seriously debate them. In fact, they won't even consider considering them, because to do so is taboo, and there's no reason to consider evidence when, if it were true, it would support a conclusion that's disdainful.

In other words, Damore's critiques are seeking out only the information that supports what they already believe. Any evidence to the contrary is immediately rejected, and anyone who presents such evidence must be fired, shunned, and removed from polite society.

Maybe it's true that the only reason women aren't evenly represented in tech and leadership is because of sexism. But how does anyone (such as our friend TBF) *know* it's true if they'll never even consider counter arguments?

I like my iPhone. Do I *know* it's better than Android? No, because I haven't used an Android in years, and even when I did, it was so brief I could not form an educated opinion about it. Until I've examined the other side, I cannot make claims like "the iPhone is the best phone in the world!" Therefore, I refrain from making such an argument.

But there are those who emphatically assert and insist that there can only be one explanation (sexism) for gender disparities in the tech industry, when they refuse to examine evidence to the contrary. Again, even considering the evidence is taboo.

Damore may be right, or he may be wrong. Either way, he deserves an open debate. If he's wrong, this should be easier for his detractors: Read or hear his arguments, demonstrate with evidence why the are wrong, and those who are open to evidence (which, alas, is far from everyone) will be swayed.

Let's have the debate. And, TBF and those on your side, let's not call others idiots just because they're interesting in discussing controversial topics.
8:33 pm — Wednesday, 16 August 2017
anonymous:
not everything needs a debate. creationism vs evolution, for example.

but i get what you're saying about people fearing to debate things. try to have a independent opinion over on boinbboing.net. you'll get banned faster than you can blink.
8:37 pm — Wednesday, 16 August 2017
Not Anonymous:
Google has adopted illiberal hiring practices that run counter to science, individualism, anti-racism and long-standing tradition. Preferential treatment for certain groups is anti-American and an insult to the civil rights movement. And their firing of Damore is dangerous attack on free expression. A debate is appropriate.

The Torquemadas of Mountain View cannot be trusted to be the gatekeepers of the world's information.

They far more dangerous to a delicate American democracy than anything we saw in Charlottesville.
9:52 pm — Wednesday, 16 August 2017
ano:
of course Gruber sides with rambling fanfiction. very in character
12:41 am — Thursday, 17 August 2017
Gruber the Booger:
>not everything needs a debate. creationism vs evolution, for example.

Everything should always be up for debate no matter how ridiculous.

Constant debate does a few things. One is that it provides a release valve for people. Another is that its a constant stream of facts.

Also debating is fun for people who choose not to fight and kill over ideas. It consistently provides the "wrong" side with valid information.

Never will there be a day where all of the people on Earth are convinced that the Earth is an oblate spheroid. But constant debate chips away at such a ridiculous notion that the Earth is flat.

Consistent, never-ending debate with known facts is crucial.

I quote Galaxy Quest: Never give up! Never Surrender!

@jimothy

Post more please. Your thoughts are too cogent to be bottled up you selfish bastard.
2:04 am — Thursday, 17 August 2017
grubes:
I didn't know 'crystallises my thoughts' was a synonym for 'cut and pasted'

good to know rightthink is copied.
2:57 am — Thursday, 17 August 2017
anti-anti-anti-anti-antifa!:
> Preferential treatment for certain groups is anti-American...

But certainly not un-American. I think part of what gets the left so worked up is hearing white guys, who as a group are not subject to some discriminatory practices that others commonly experience, complaining about discrimination while seeming completely oblivious to the discrimination that other groups experience every day.

There's lots of room to disagree with a policy without insisting that the problem it's trying to solve doesn't exist.

> ...and an insult to the civil rights movement.

I'd guess the flurry of Confederate memorials put up at the height of the civil rights movement was found more insulting.
2:57 am — Thursday, 17 August 2017
toolshed:
Damore is a cunt. Fuck him and his bogus pseudo-science, and all his moronic supporters at DFWC. Grow a dick.
5:32 am — Thursday, 17 August 2017
Not Anonymous:
If the Left is worked up about discriminatory practices (appropriate) they shouldn't be arguing for discriminatory practices.

Progressives have no real interest in remedying discrimination or combatting racism. Having appointed classes of victims suits their illiberal ideology.

Does the insult of Confederate memorials in any way detract from the insult that is modern progressive racism?

No. Why are the racists on one side of the equation so much more tolerable to you?
5:46 am — Thursday, 17 August 2017
Gruber F. Johnson:
>I think part of what gets the left so worked up is hearing white guys ...

Who cares if it's "white guys" saying it? The source is unimportant.
6:04 am — Thursday, 17 August 2017
anonymous:
grow a dick? are you suggesting people with dicks are somehow lesser? fucking sexist.

this is no-go zone for straight white cisgender penis-privileged men.
6:13 am — Thursday, 17 August 2017
grubes:
'grow a dick'? is that scientifically possible?

Oh, wait. male babies and pregnant women do it all the time.
6:39 am — Thursday, 17 August 2017
ano:
> his bogus pseudo-science

The science is on Demore's side.

Take it up with Stanford Medical school: stanmed.stanford.edu/2017spring/how-mens-and-womens-brains-are-different.html

Or this widely cited female first-authored research: http://atavisionary.com/study-index/sex-differences-on-g-and-non-g-intellectual-performance-reveal-potential-sources-of-stem-discrepancies/

> The findings suggest that
the persistent – and usually neglected average large advantage of boys in mechanical
reasoning (MR) — orthogonal to g – might be behind their higher presence in STEM

8:28 am — Thursday, 17 August 2017
Grubweiner:
I'm guessing they wouldn't have fired Damore if he had been a woman.
8:47 am — Thursday, 17 August 2017
jimothy:
Perhaps accidentally, but you raise a good comparison with creationism vs. evolution.

While we've probably long ago reached the point of diminishing returns on that subject, as Gruber the Booger points out, debate is still important.

What makes this a good comparison, however, is that it illustrates how dogma makes people willfully blind to evidence. The creationist's position is entrenched, and not only does he not want to hear evidence of evolution, such evidence is threatening to his position, so he *mustn't* hear it.

The same is true for the Equality Über Alles crowd: any evidence or suggestion that their are legitimate differences between the sexes must be suppressed, because it is discomforting to their sacred beliefs.

This is also another illustration of how dogmatic blindness is not just a left or just a right affliction. And yes, just like anyone, I have my own blindspots.
11:54 am — Thursday, 17 August 2017
anti-anti-anti-anti-anti-antifa!:
> Who cares if it's "white guys" saying it? The source is unimportant.

Ideally, some day, it won't matter who the source is. But right now, it sounds like "Race and sex mattered a great deal to white men, who worked toward creating undeniable inequalities of opportunity and actual conditions for women and minorities. But we got rid of those laws a couple of years ago so discrimination against you guys is officially dead, and we are shocked that you would imply otherwise and try to make changes beyond strict neutrality."
1:29 pm — Thursday, 17 August 2017
anonymous:
Looks like we've got the low-education shit-bird male/white rights people out in spades on this one.

Maybe you guys should rub some aloe on your butthurt and grow a pair, and grow the fuck up.
8:57 pm — Thursday, 17 August 2017
anonymous:
You call them low-education, yet their posts have content of value and yours do not.
1:16 am — Friday, 18 August 2017
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